Recomended Tubes and Tires

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Re: Recomended Tubes and Tires

Postby Chris Thornham » May 15th, 2016, 12:40 pm

fletch03 wrote:Would tubes w/ 80mm valves work for both 60s and 90s? I understand the 90s would still need a extension, but would it not work with just a 34mm extension? That would allow both wheels to use the same tube and only need an extension on the rear. Would this not work?


This would also work. Just keep in mind that 80mm tubes are much more expensive and at times harder to find. That's the main reason we recommend the 48mm tubes.

I hope that helps,
Chris Thornham
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Re: Recomended Tubes and Tires

Postby Gassman1 » September 24th, 2016, 5:18 pm

You recommend 48mm valves, but Conti doesn't make tubes with that length valve. Do you recommend a tube with 48mm valves? Thanks.
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Re: Recomended Tubes and Tires

Postby Chris Thornham » September 25th, 2016, 8:47 am

Gassman1 wrote:You recommend 48mm valves, but Conti doesn't make tubes with that length valve. Do you recommend a tube with 48mm valves? Thanks.


For training purposes I just get the most affordable option. Sometimes you can find them on sale. Q Tubes makes an affordable tube that has a removable valve core. You may want to start there. I'd go with the 18-23 by 48mm.

http://www.jensonusa.com/Q-Tubes-Standard-700C-Presta-Tube

I hope that helps,
Chris Thornham
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Re: Recomended Tubes and Tires

Postby AlathIN » November 9th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Just joined the forum and plan to order a set of 60-90 cc's when I can sell a couple-few old wheel sets.
Did have a question about latex tubes. Your rationale for using them on race day makes sense. Do you keep them on all the time, or switch to butyl for training and general use?
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Re: Recomended Tubes and Tires

Postby Chris Thornham » November 10th, 2016, 12:50 pm

AlathIN wrote:Just joined the forum and plan to order a set of 60-90 cc's when I can sell a couple-few old wheel sets.
Did have a question about latex tubes. Your rationale for using them on race day makes sense. Do you keep them on all the time, or switch to butyl for training and general use?


Latex tubes are far more expensive. Using them during training means each flat will be more expensive. You could put a little sealant in each one to help prevent any flats. Personally, I would use butyl tubes for training and then switch to latex for racing. I'd make sure you leave plenty of time for your latex set up and do a few test runs since, the latex tubes can be much harder to work with and install. When installing them, make sure your rim tape is installed properly and there are no holes anywhere. Latex tubes have a way of finding any hole. Some people use two wraps of Stan's Tape for this installation.

I hope that helps,
Chris Thornham
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
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Re: Recomended Tubes and Tires

Postby PsychoMike » November 13th, 2016, 8:15 pm

Chris Thornham wrote:Latex tubes are far more expensive. Using them during training means each flat will be more expensive. You could put a little sealant in each one to help prevent any flats. Personally, I would use butyl tubes for training and then switch to latex for racing. I'd make sure you leave plenty of time for your latex set up and do a few test runs since, the latex tubes can be much harder to work with and install. When installing them, make sure your rim tape is installed properly and there are no holes anywhere. Latex tubes have a way of finding any hole. Some people use two wraps of Stan's Tape for this installation.

I hope that helps,


I'll offer a slightly different take on this one from Chris.

Yes, latex tubes are more expensive than butyl...but...If you're a Clyde, you may actually get fewer flats with latex tubes. Besides the advantages of lower rolling resistance and a more sublime ride feel, for us bigger guys running higher pressure I find a more pliant tire/tube combo will let the tire deform around debris more. My personal experience is that a nick in the tire from more deflection is better than a full on puncture, including the tube.

It is only anecdotal, but in my personal experience, I would get 2-3 flats a year on butyl tubes while in the last two seasons on latex, I have been flat free (though both sets of tires show their miles with lots of nicks and gashes).

That said, if running latex, you need to be prepared to pump them up before each ride and to take more care in getting the tires into the rims....they bleed more air, can find sharp edges of spoke holes and they are far easier to pinch flat during install.

Overall, in spite of the negatives, I've become a latex convert and run them all the time as they seem to do better overall than butyl for a bigger guy like me.
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Re: Recomended Tubes and Tires

Postby AlathIN » November 29th, 2016, 11:20 am

Ordered my wheels on the Black Friday sale, excited to see them!
I got a 60/90 set of carbon clinchers.

Had a question about the valve extenders. With a 60/90 set, what is the best solution for an emergency spare tube? Carry an extra tube set up for the 90 with an extender already installed, and it would just stick out if it was used on the front? I'm imagining myself on the roadside during a half ironman, clock ticking away, sweating in the July Indiana heat and humidity, fiddling around with a valve extender and sweaty fingers....
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Re: Recomended Tubes and Tires

Postby Chris Thornham » November 29th, 2016, 1:14 pm

AlathIN wrote:Ordered my wheels on the Black Friday sale, excited to see them!
I got a 60/90 set of carbon clinchers.

Had a question about the valve extenders. With a 60/90 set, what is the best solution for an emergency spare tube? Carry an extra tube set up for the 90 with an extender already installed, and it would just stick out if it was used on the front? I'm imagining myself on the roadside during a half ironman, clock ticking away, sweating in the July Indiana heat and humidity, fiddling around with a valve extender and sweaty fingers....


I'm going to paste a reply from my friend Josh Poertner on this topic. He does such a great job at discussing this topic, I figured I'd use his expertise.

Here it is...



This is a great thread and one that is close to my heart! In working dozens of Ironman and half distance events during my Zipp days I saw literally hundreds of people on the side of the road in all states of no extender, too short, broken valve core, CO2 doesn't work that that extender, dropped or lost the tool for the extender, mis-fired the CO2, pinched the tube, and many, many more.

Here is the recommendation I give to EVERYBODY including pros:

I recommend at a minimum:

1 Butyl tube with pre-installed valve extender for your deepest wheel. Test this valve in your wheel before putting it in your pack!!!
1 CO2 regulator
2 CO2 cylinder
2 Tire levers
LOTS of Practice.

Why butyl? Isn't latex faster?? Yes, latex is faster, but on the course when your brain is fried and your hands are shaky, the added difficulty of installing latex simply isn't worth it. You have a 10% likelihood of pinching a latex tube on initial install in your garage, and a 90% chance of doing it mid-race. Butyl is much easier to work with and much harder to pinch.

Why pre-install the extender? For $10-15 you can have total piece of mind. Again, your hands are shaky, your brain is not functioning as highly as normal, your dexterity is poor... due to tolerances and such, valve extenders can be tricky to install perfectly at home, on the side of the road mid-race is NOT the place to be doing this job. Also, You can be sure ahead of time that the tube/extender works in your deepest wheel. I often find people with a 37mm valve on their spare and a 50 installed in the wheel...when you swap the extender, the extender combined with the shorter valve may now not work in your wheel. Instead, buy a tube and the proper extender and physically put it in your wheel to ensure it will work. Then wrap this up and put it in your bag.

DISC WHEELS: If you are using a disc, you need 2 tubes, one for your disc and one for your deep wheel. TEST your CO2 on both of them to ensure it fits and works. Test inflate your disc with your CO2 to ensure you can disengage it from the inflated tire, I have seen many cases where the CO2 regulator will fit on the tube initially but once inflated the tube pinches the regulator head inside the cutout. This could be you and you don't know it yet, so test it and then find a tube with shorter valve if so!!

Also, practice with your CO2 regulator and make sure it works with your valve extenders (disc). Many of the regulators on the market currently are designed to thread onto the top of the valve core, Lezyne for instance has an entire range of regulators that only work with thread on..and they work very well, but I see too often people with that regulator and a barb type valve extender that won't work with the regulator. I strongly recommend buying some extra CO2 cylinders and using them to learn the ins and outs of your preferred system. This will expose any gaps in the equipment, like thread on only CO2 heads with barbed valve extenders!

2 CO2 yet only one tube? If you have space, take a second tube/extender as well, but yes. I've seen so many mis-fired CO2s out on course, CO2's fired against closed valves, tube partially inflated but tire not seated so air is let out and then re-inflated, etc..

2 Tire levers. I'm the first guy to throw down and say that I can remove and mount any tire by hand...however, I'm also the first to admit that it isn't true out on course mid race. Have at least 2 levers and know how to use them both for tire removal and tire install.

My view on this is that you are training hundreds and hundreds of hours and spending many thousands of dollars to get to a race like this. It is literally 45 minutes to an hour of time to lay out your spares/tool strategy and test it before packing it all up for the event. You might spend $10 on CO2 cartridges learning how to use them in real time, and another $30-40 adding additional valve extenders and other necessities to your kit, but you are then completely prepared. The confidence alone is well worth it for most people.
Josh
http://www.SILCA.cc
The 3 Keys to Super Easy, Super Fast Tire/Tube Installation (even with latex):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W85RCHoukI
How much speed and comfort is your tire pressure costing you? More than you think! https://silca.cc/blogs/journal
Chris Thornham
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Re: Recomended Tubes and Tires

Postby AlathIN » December 16th, 2016, 11:34 am

Saw in a blog post from March 2016 that you had compared aero effect of 23 vs 25mm ContiGP4K2, but hadn't gotten around to posting the info yet.

Did you post this later and I just didn't find it?

Very curious to know, since 25mm GP4K2 is the tire I intend to run. My thought is that even if there is a slight aero penalty, I think I will net benefit from being able to stay in my aero bars through fast corners, over rough stuff, etc. The only thing that would make me change my mind would be if the aero penalty is very significant.
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Re: Recomended Tubes and Tires

Postby Chris Thornham » December 17th, 2016, 12:38 pm

AlathIN wrote:Saw in a blog post from March 2016 that you had compared aero effect of 23 vs 25mm ContiGP4K2, but hadn't gotten around to posting the info yet.

Did you post this later and I just didn't find it?

Very curious to know, since 25mm GP4K2 is the tire I intend to run. My thought is that even if there is a slight aero penalty, I think I will net benefit from being able to stay in my aero bars through fast corners, over rough stuff, etc. The only thing that would make me change my mind would be if the aero penalty is very significant.


We did post the results, you might find them interesting. They can be found here: http://flocycling.blogspot.com/2016/06/flo-cycling-a2-wind-tunnel-tire-study.html
Chris Thornham
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
FLO Blog: http://bit.ly/b3Zlpq | Twitter: http://bit.ly/bOQ08x | Facebook: http://bit.ly/d8KDhI
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